Category: News and Views
hey everybody
i just wanted to give you guys an update on new york and its status with sandy on the way
we have powerful gusts and some rain not to much.
the coastal neighborhoods are flooded and people are being stubborn and not heading to higher ground.
my neck of the woods is okay no power outage yet
although my dog wanted to go out with this emergency rageing around us.
good luck occured although when the doorman saw us and took her out for me.
that was nice.
okay i am posting this to let people talk about how the storm is affecting them in there neck of the woods.
so post away
I'm in Texas so won't get a bit of it. Stay safe though.
Man, I didn't even think about things like having to take your dog out in a hurricane. That was nice of the doorman.
Again, take care and post updates when you can. This goes for anybody in the path of Sandy. Yall let us know you're ok.
Geez, I'm such a momma hen. lol
I am in North Carolina but far enough away from the coast that I am just getting cold and wind. I might get a bit of snow in a day or two. But probibley not.
I'm in new jersey and south of me is a mess but we are relatively okay. The power went out last night but that's it accept for some downed trees here and there.
It has been exciting, but the coverage has been too focused on New York City.
i know what you mean. my mom says that when new york stops the world stops.
but i am worried about whats up with the outside of new york.
anyways. new york is getting up on his feet.
the subways are still closed. they are filled with water.
most of my family here is without electricity.
The coasteal communities are ruined. there has been eightten deaths.
homes in the city have been leveled.
and my college hasn't opened yet.
but other then that my house is still standing.
I'm on Long Island in New York. Our power went out Monday night and came back this afternoon. You don't realize how awesome hot water is till it's gone. There are some trees and utility poles down in our area but we didn't sustain the horrible flood damage our neighbors closer to the water are dealing with. My parents visited some relatives in Long Beach this morning, their houses and cars and flooded and the town has no sewage or drinking water. Was just watching some footage of New Jersey on the news. So many beautiful places destroyed, so sad. The recovery effort is well underway however so hopefully things will be relatively back to normal for most people sometime soon. Glad everyone else has made it through the storm ok so far.
I'm in New Jersey, about 15 to 20 minutes away from New york City. Thankfully, we only lost power for a little over half a day, but nothing was damaged and there was no flooding. I'm not sure about now, but earlier today, a few people on our block and a block or two over still didn't have power. It wasn't as terrible for us as I thought it would be, but it was certainly bad enough that I don't ever want to go through something like this again.
Welcome to florida. That happens two or three times a year for us. It happened three times this year for me, and sandy kinda flooded our city a little as she passed, nothing major though. The thing was, despite the hype going on about it, this wasn't really all that big a deal. as cold as this sounds, twenty-eight deaths isn't that much of a death toll. I know northerners are freaked out, but you guys really got lucky if you think about it. It could have been an andrew or a katrina. You guys will be back to normal in a couple weeks. Give it a year and there won't even be scars left. Ya'll will be fine.
Wow that was a bit cold. I think the biggist concern now is the gas
You know, gas, that thing that fuils vehickles and generators? Yeah, it's an issue.
shortage
Cody's post wasn't cold, at all. this really wasn't as big a deal as it has been made out to be. people are acting like it's Katrina all over again.
Yeah. The storm was forecasted to be worse than it was. We didn't get nearly as much rain as forecasted. The biggest problem was the wind which caused some structure damage and power outages. Hopefully the people who still don't have power get it back soon.
Cody's post was cold, especially with the false comment that there won't even be scars in a year. This type of reaction is not surprising, though. The attitude that "we deal with it, so stop whining" is sort of a regional sense of pride that many people have. It's the same attitude, complete with eye roles, that people from the north have when the south shuts down due to the cold or that people from the midwest have when severe weather or tornadoes strike anywhere else. A little empathy goes a long way.
I think the media usually turns things like this into a bigger deal than they actually are just to scare people..
When I said scars, I meant physical ones, not emotional ones. I do not claim to know if there will be mental scars or not. Basically what I'm saying is you won't have trees still twisted like you do in miami, nearly two decades after the fact. You won't have entirely abandoned neighborhoods next year due to the hurricane. You will rebuild, and everything will be fine.
Yes, there is a regional sense of, "I deal with it, so you can too", mostly because that's true. Those people who say that have been through it, thus proving its possible to get through it. When floridians complain that its cold, I tell them to put a coat on, problem solved. I even offer them my coat since I can handle the cold.
The fact of the matter is that people had a lot of time to move if they needed to or wanted to, they knew the storm was coming days in advance, and they chose not too. Plus, as I said, this was a small hurricane. The water has already receded, yes, I know its still in the subway system, but that's because the new york subway system is actually under water. They just need a few days to pump it all out. This is not a national disaster of biblical proportions. Everyone just needs to calm down and move on, its over.
Cody:
homes were destroyed leaving many homeless. Many people struggle to find gas. Sand is in the street rather than on the beach. Do I really need to continue?
Again, it is unfair and naive to claim that there will not be physical scars. The physical damage, while it might be subtle or indirect, will linger. There are already questions about if -- and how -- to rebuild sections of the New Jersey coastline given the impact of climate change and the possibility of future storms. This storm was bigger than just New York City. This storm, as with every other disaster, will have both a subtle and direct impact on the people and environment for years to come. Sure, they will rebuild. It is likely that most things will probably seem fine on the surface. But no, it's not "over." This storm will likely shape lives and even policy decisions for a long time to come, even if people in Florida and the rest of the nation do not see it directly.
as Cody is saying, people will deal with it. their lives won't stop just because there has been a hurricane. will/have they changed? sure, some have. however, it really is up to them whether they wanna move on emotionally, or allow life's happenings to dictate how they'll live for the rest of their lives.
There was homeless before the storm, sand in the streets isn't really that big a deal, it can be taken care of pretty easily. People always struggle to find gas.
Now, that being said, they will learn from this. They'll say, "ok, we need to change a few things so it won't be so bad the next time it happens". Then things will be improved. You really want to call that scars? I call that learning from your mistakes.
Yes, I call losing portions of boardwalks and communities and neighborhoods and houses/memories legitimate scars for plenty of people. Wow, are we really disagreeing over this? By the way, Cody was not simply saying that "people will deal with it," happy heart. Instead, SilverLightning wrote:
"Everyone just needs to calm down and move on, its over."
Which is false. It's not.
Brice
Yes it is, the storm is gone, now is what we call the clean up portion. So start cleaning up.
Yes, people lost homes, and businesses, and all that. Yes, that is sad. No, it is not anywhere near as bad as it could have been. As far as hurricanes go, that was a tiny one. Its too late in the season for a big hurricane. It was geographically big, but not on the cat scale.
well said, Cody.
What I want to know is, who is the wise guy who thought he could get away with not sacrificing a virgin. Come on, you hear the drums and you know what they say. Sacrifice a virgin to the sun god every so often and he does not get angry and send the big wind and the great rain, it's really that simple. Now come on, fess up, which village did not sacrifice their virgin when they were supposed to!
That's life. You go through tramatic situations at times. Sure it's hard, but you need to eventually wake up and move on, hopefully sooner than later.
exactly my point, Ryan.
I'm gonna have to disagree with Cody and Chelsea on this one. The shape of the disaster is definitely different than that which we saw with Katrina or Hurricane Andrew or many others. However, disaster recovery takes a lot of time, energy and national resources. Do ain Internet search on the word Logistics and you'll get some education. In summary, logistics is how you move things and people into position. The terms you see and hear like 'section chief', 'strike team', 'task force', etc. come from our Incident Command structure which is how we manage disaster situations: during and after the event. It's not over, it won't be over for quite some time yet.
I'm deeply offended at the idea that attitude can save people. If attitude was all it took, many of us would not have taken the oath we took to serve not just the nation but local communities. The Department of Homeland Security which includes agencies responsible for disaster management is not made of atitudes or get-over-its from a bunch of young college kids with lots of ideas about attitudes. It's grit and wit that saves people: no more, no less. It's that combination of good infrastructure, good communication between agencies, boots on the ground, and resources to back them is what will assist the local populations of whatever disaster we're talking about to survive.
I am never offended at people criticizing how we manage things: in fact I doubt anybody here can tear us apart nearly as much as we do ourselves after an event during briefings. All that criticism does is strengthen and sharpen us for next time. There are some challenges unique to this particular disaster as it pertains to bringing in adequate equipment and supplies, and clearing 18 inches or more of sand around buildings / off of roads isn't actually going to be very easy. I don't think it serves anyone to rate whose disaster is worse than hose. However, it does serve to apply lessons learned from prior disasters to this one, and to be honest about our shortcomings when dealing with this one, while moving forward. I'll be clear here in saying that I am in no way speaking for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) or any of its dependent agencies, but as a member, one of many thousands, I believe it's fair to say that we didn't dedicate ourselves for anything less than securing the well-being of people on our shores. And for the most part, disasters pose the greatest threats to human life. The media will often give the death toll right after the disaster, but our concern remains through all phases of the recovery until the site is back in operation.
I know we don't always do things right: people point to Katrina and other incidents at mistakes we've made as a nation, and particular organizations. But we're not going to be waiting on the locals to just get over it: be it the well-known New Yorkers, or lesser-known West Virginians, or you should your area be impacted by a natural disaster event. Bringing attitude into this, just like bringing religion into it, is extremely shortsighted.
Verry well said leo. Cody and Chelsae:
I urge you to think before you post. I promise you that this loddy-dah mentality will not get you far in life. You want to think you're so tough? Fine, one day you will be knocked on your ass. It happens to all of us; it's called growing up.
I don't have a la-dee-da mentality about it. I've said repeatedly, its a tragic, but it isn't the end of the world. People will be alright, the sun will come out tomorrow, its ok. The storm is gone, in a couple weeks the sand will be gone, life will continue. Its really a very optimistic ideal.
As it happens, I know lots of older people who think the exact same thing. People let so many things stop their lives. Tragedies of all shape and size stall them, when there is nothing you can do to change it. The hurricane came through, that's terrible, now its time to get back up, dust yourself off and rebuild your life. I see no point in letting things completely destroy you. If you can tell me one as such a wise elderly person, I'll respect you for it, but I don't think you can.
Yes, of course it is gone and we will live. Still, what a foolish thing to post. Why bother? People are asking what happened and are you alright and you basically say, "get over it."
No, I said you will be ok. Would you rather I have said "Oh my goodness how terrible how could you possibly have survived that your life must be in absolute ruins?" Would that have been more comforting then a message of hope that it will all be alright?
Maybe I'm strange, but I like it better when people tell me things are going to get better, then when they remind me of how bad they currently are. Am I the only one who thinks this way?
While it is quite optimistic to have an attitude of "dust yourself off and move forward," it is rather harsh to mitigate people's emotions and act as though they are making a big deal of nothing. This is not a preppy school girl crying about a broken nail or a ruined pair of shoes, these are people whose lives have been interrupted and put on hold due to a hurricane.
As a woman who has lived in Michigan all her life, the worst thing I've ever experienced as a result of the weather was a poweroutage. I could not imagine how I would feel if I had to leave my life behind because a hurricane was coming, if my home was destroyed by a hurricane, or if my property was damaged by fire or flooding. I feel for these people who may have never experienced a natural disaster like this.
While the storm is technically over, I look at it like a story: the preparation for it was the rising action, the hurricane itself was the climax, and the clean up is the falling action; and there's many loose ends to tie off. It's not over yet.
But I have been through a hurricane. I've been there, I can tell them first hand that it will be ok. It will get better. It sucks right now, but the world is still spinning. You've got sand in the streets and ruined houses and buildings, but that doesn't mean your infrastructure is gone, or that you have to start wandering the countryside fighting off hords of roaving bandits. I'm saying, through personal experience, that it gets better from here. Its a message of solidarity, not sympathy. I hate sympathy. Sympathy makes no one better, it just makes them feel better when they cry that they have someone crying with them.
I'm not going to cry with you. Find me when you're house is rebuilt and we'll go for drinks together to celebrate. That point will feel much better than this one.
I empathize with you, but I don't sympathize. I will give you solidarity if you want it, and happily so, but if you want me to cry with you over something that is never going to change, I won't do it.
very well said, Cody.
I, too, have been knocked down in quite tragic ways in life, and that's exactly why I present the attitude of "things do get better". despite the fact I didn't say it in those exact words, that's what I meant. does it mean I'm saying these hurricane survivors are complete idiots for letting this tear them down? no. I'm simply telling people that, although things may seem crappy, now, they definitely will get better.
like Cody, I'd rather someone tell me that when I've gone through something tragic, instead of, "I'm so sorry that happened." believe it or not, empathy, not sympathy, goes a long way.
Oh I agree with you. Personally, I was not affected even half as badly as most. I like to believe that these people will move on with there lives. Still, I think Raven's post sums up what I was getting at.
Hilarious that you are both now trying to twist words and claim the empathetic card, when a lack of empathy is the reason I bothered to post and call you out in this thread. I originally told Cody that a bit of Empathy (no, happy heart, not "sympathy") would go a long way, and this was in response to the following (very non empathetic statements of his):
"Despite the hype going on about it, this wasn't really all that big a deal…twenty-eight deaths isn't that much" (interestingly, the death toll has climbed to over 100)
"Give it a year and there won't even be scars left. Ya’ll will be fine."
These are not empathetic comments given to encourage. These are flippant off-handed dismissals of the disaster and the impact on lives and property. You can change the tone of your comments all you want, but "This is normal for (insert location)," "Calm down," "Get over it," "I call that learning from your mistakes," "it’s over," and "there won't even be scars" are not empathetic and sincere comments. They are callous dismissals.
":
Would you rather I have said "Oh my goodness how terrible how could you possibly have survived that your life must be in absolute ruins?" Would that have been more comforting then a message of hope that it will all be alright?"
You are twisting the meanings of statements in this thread. Nobody has suggested that you should fall to your knees crying over the death toll and destruction. We have, however, called you out for your impudence and nonchalant attitude about the storm and the damage.
You both have also made numerous comments about the size of the storm: This storm wasn't a national disaster, it wasn't another Katrina, it wasn't that destructive, only twenty-eight deaths, so get the hell over it, etc. Given these statements, I'm curious what you would consider a big disaster worthy of your empathy (which again, you have not displayed in this thread, despite your last several posts trying to indicate otherwise). Is 100 deaths more important than 28? Should we take it more seriously, now? What if 500 people died instead of just 100 or 28? Will there be scars, now? Should people just suck it up and move on?
Brice
Frankly, yes. Pearl harbor killed over three thousand people, we aren't still pissed at the japanese. Katrina killed thousands, and we're over it. You have to move on from these things or else you forget to live the good days you've had the chance to live.
Yes, its tragic that 100 people died, though honestly those figures are always questionable because a lot of people die from fallen powerlines, not hurricanes, but that's neither here nor there. Its tragic people lost homes, but people lose homes in fires every day, and milllions of people die every day. You aren't whimmpering over them. This time it was caused by wind and rain, and I'm supposed to change my tune for you? I'm supposed to be more sorry for the ones who lost it in a storm than I am of the ones who lost it in a house fire on christmas? Sorry, I don't have the ability to differentiate.
Everyone suffers, everyone dies, all we can control is how to spend the time we have. Thus, if you want to take my dismissal as callus, go for it. I didn't mean it callusly, but that's up to you.
hmm just more typical zone drama bs...
Here's the difference you are failing to see:
Neither Cody or Chelsea are acting heartlessly. By that I mean they are not saying, "get over it." "Stop whining and move on. This is no big deal."
Again, you have to move on. There is no other choice. Nobody said, "who cares? People died, but it's all good anyway." What is so hard and wrong with being realistic?
I agree but such comments are counterproductive to this topic.
I had to log out to read some of these posts, because I couldn't believe some of this! How dare you talk about me when you've said such sickening things! "Calm down and move on?" Do you realise that at least 90 people died? That's d i e d, not just had a broken arm or lost their television! Even if it was only 28, does it really matter? Can you go to their families and say "well, your son was only one of 28, so don't worry about it. Just move on"? Maybe, you should try that with the mother who lost her two little children! Some people are still without power, a week after the storm, and certain places aren't due to get it back for at least another week! the phrase "Everyone just needs to calm down and move on, its over" is not only childish, but harsh and completely inconsiderate of the suffering that people have gone and are still going through. happy heart, do you realise that this is not common for the east coast? No one here is used to such devistating storms. I could turn around and say that Katrina was nothing in comparison to the problems in Japan. But does it make it any less of a tragedy? As for post 18, again, try saying that to those who have lost loved ones. Just move on and deal with it. You people have put me at a loss for words@!
ArtRock1224, I find this attitude not only surprising but downright sickening. It's the idea of "me me me" and "it's not my problem" and "who cares". Whatever happened to America joining together as a nation to help it's fellow citizens and legal residents? Hell, even illegal in this case, since you don't know who's who until things have really calmed down!
Godzilla, that's not funny. This wasn't some silly little storm that blew hats off of people. This was a tragedy.
Thanks to those of you who have demonstrated hearts, sympathy, and common sense! I have a headache and am feeling slightly nausiated now from the rest of you.
Why not calm down? I don't see any good outcome from freaking out and saying the obvious again, that things aren't great, that people are without homes and that people died. Other efforts need to be taken, other than crying and hoping for "sympathy." "Empathy" is another story.
You people need help. Remind me, if you lose your homes, to just walk by with a smile on my face. But I promise to empathise with you, as I grab my coffee and breakfast, and relax in my nice warm house. You'll deal with it, I'm sure.
But it was all Poseidon's fault, wasn't it? You know, one of your fairytale gods? Heh. Maybe you should be pissed off at him instead.
thanks, Ryan, for understanding and accepting the fact that how Cody and I come across, is, by no means, childish, or any of the other things being claimed.
if we were saying things like, "who cares", or something similar to that affect, then, our comments could be called callous, or any of the other terms people have used to define our supposed lack of empathy.
seriously, what's so wrong with being realistic?
how is it horrible to say, "you have to move on from these things, or else you forget to live the good days you've had the chance to liv."
how is such a positive, what myself/Cody find to be a comforting, uplifting attitude, as the quote from him I posted indicates, counterproductive to this topic about experiencing a hurricane, and getting back up again?
Yes, people will eventually have to move on, as that is the way of things. But you don't say that while they're in the midst of tragedy, while they still don't have homes, power, or in some cases, loved ones. You say it afterword, while the building is going on, or when they're sitting in their new home and crying about what they lost. You say "I'm truly sorry for your loss. I couldn't imagine what you're going through" or "I lost things too. But we need to move on and try to start over."
I agree with that. You know Chelsae, I really wish you'd think about what you are going to post before you post. Is this what you are like in person? Goodness.
Why would you say "you'll get a new homme one day, we'll rebuild" after you've rebuilt?
If you get in a car accident, would you want to know that I plan to buy you a new car before or after you've bought one? Hope goes before the solution, not after it.
Parenthetically, if I lost my home, I would rebuild. You know how I know that? Cuz I've been there and done it.
I've lost land to fires, houses to tornadoes, possessions to hurricanes and floods. You know what I did, I learned from it and moved on.
Let me ask this one last question, exactly how long is the proper mourning time for a category one hurricane? I'm talking days here, how long?
margorp, I do think before I post.
yes, I'm this way in person. however, people take it how they take it.
as has been demonstrated, some see it for exactly what it is, and others misinterpret it.
Cody is right, though. hope comes before the solution, not after it.
pittying people, isn't the answer. saying "I'm sooooo sorry" for what someone has gone through/lost, only digs them deeper in the hole of depression they're likely experiencing, in turn, discouraging them from even trying to make things better.
doing our best to help them, is the answer. if you don't know how to build, find someone who does. if you can share your personal experience as to a horrible tragedy you've been through (hurricane or otherwise) I'm sure you all would be surprised at how well they'd receive that.
No one is saying that nothing should be done, or that people shouldn't have hope. But there are ways of going about things. You don't tell someone who just lost a dog, for example, to get over it and just get a new one. But I don't know, maybe you two would.
Exactly. There is a time and a place for such words.
Ok, when is this time and place? How long after the hurricane should we say move on? Can we say move on to andrew, katrina, ophelia, fae? I lost shingles in beryl, can I still mourn that? How long, exactly, do you feel is long enough for someone to mourn. Give me a calculation I can do please.
I think Leo put it best. And I won't rehash anything he said, but I'll add my two cents.
The way people deal with any given tragedy differs from person to person, from region to region, from circumstance to circumstance. Florida is the land of hurricanes. Florida knows how to pick itself up and dust itself off in a matter of days or weeks. But what would happen if Florida got pounded with two feet of snow. I'd like to see anyone say "get over it" then. You guys don't have the tools to be prepared for a blizzard down there. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm sure you're inclined to do, but I doubt states like California and florida invest too much money in snow plows; You guys don't have snow farms like they do in, say, massachusetts to put all the snow somewhere where it can melt without causing further distruction.
In much the same way, the north east is not prepared for a hurricane. Should we have been? Perhaps, perhaps not. We get hurricanes here about as often as california sees snow. We get thunder storms, we get rain storms, we get tropical storms even, but rarely a hurricane. So go ahead an tell someone that it's no big deal that they lost a house just as they rebuilt it after it's distruction due to hurricane Irene. That's comparable to me saying get over the fact that you have a foot of snow in los angeles. Certain regions are prepared for certain kinds of natural disasters due to the climate. Perhaps the general climate is shifting now due to global warming, so it would be best to reevaluate what each region needs, but it's not productive to diminish each individual tragedy just because you might be no stranger to such a tragedy yourself.
You'll say that you're being optimistic, and that your outlook only helps people move on from what hit them. But there's a major difference between being optimistic and nonchalant. People dont' welcome nonchalance when their kids were killed and homes destroyed. No one should dwell on tragedy, and everyone should rebuild and regroup, but I think some compassion is in order along with this so-called optimism. And if you can't be compassionate, keep quiet. Keep your thoughts to yourself in this case. Normally, I don't advocate for that sort of thing, I think that oppinions should be stated. But when your oppinion is stated in such a way that it belittles people in the face of tragedy, it's distasteful. How would any of you feel if a close friend of yours died suddenly and someone came along and said, oh, quit sulking. I lost three friends in the last six months. get over it. you'll be fine. I dont' know about some of you, but a few people would just bitchslap the dust-yourself-off attitude right off of their face. There's a fine line between feeling sorry for someone and empathizing with them, and I think that it's basic human nature to seek empathy. if you're not empathetic, you're viewed as cold and indifferent. And no one will welcome that as optimism.
Once again, each circumstance has to be taken into perspective. A state like florida has been through millions of hurricanes; I dont' remember when we had a hurricane here last before this most recent one. So you can't compare the circumstances as closely as you have; not really.
I personally haven't been affected by the storm. But I sure as hell won't tell the people in Jersey or new york to shut up and rebuild because it's no big deal, after all, I never even lost power so it can't be so bad.
Welcome to my childhood, Tiffanitsa. That happened several times for me, like when mine ran out in front of that car when I was five or when I forgot to feed it and it ran away. The thing is, despite how bad it felt at the time, it really isn't a big deal that you lost your dog. As cold as this sounds, one missing dog isn't that big of a deal because lots of dogs die and go missing every day. I know your freaked out because your dog is lost, but you got lucky if you think about it. It could have been your cat or it could have died. You'll forget about him and a few weeks and probably have a new one. Give it a year and you won't even remember him. You'll be fine.
ArtRock. that's sarcasm, I hope.
Of course. See post 9 for context.
Brice
Yes, florida is prepared for hurricanes. I live in florida, and have been through hurricanes. Thus, I can tell someone from new york, who is terrified right now that it will get better.
Lets say that we do get two feet of snow dumped on us right now. My first recourse would be to wrap myself up warmly, go out and shovel my driveway. Do I have a snowshovel, no, but I have the experience and I know how to improvize. Then I'd help my neighbors. I've been there, I know what to do.
Well, now new york has a snowy driveway, someone's gotta go out and shovel it for them. Shouldn't it be someone from florida or louisiana or texas who have been there, done that, and have the knowledge?
It would be different if it were someone from michigan saying it. Just like if a woman lost her baby, having a guy say he empathizes would be idiotic. Another woman can though.
My point is, I've been here, I've been where the people in New York are. I can tell them that it is going to be alright.
If the time comes that snow buries florida, I hope I can count on all you northerners to tell me to get out, shovel my driveway, and get on about my life. Tell me the world isn't going to end, that there's light at the end of the tunnel. Don't tell me how sorry you feel, that doesn't do me any good.
Think of this though. Me saying what I said made you angry. If you can get angry at me, you can get angry at the sand in your streets. If you're angry you can do something about it. Anger is a lot more useful than depression. Get angry.
To post 56. The problom isn't the snow. The problom is that thousands of people are with out power, low on food water clothing first ade kits and many other supplies. As for a blanket there are many people that are in need of blankets and cotes. It is going to be freezing and with out power there is no heat with homes destroied or dammaged that's even worse. Not to menchen this storm has the patenchel to knock out power. For some that maybe just got it back. I understand that because you are farther away or it's not directly impacting you that it may not seem like a big deal but it is. They did prepare best they could for Sandy but theres only so much you can do and to have a NorEaster come on the heals of this herracane it's drastic! Just put yourself in someone elses shoes you are with out food, your family is struggling to get gas for there cars and your running low on food. Your water is undrinkable and you are running out of fresh water. It would be like Florda getting a Earth quake and Calafornya getting a blizard.
write away, we may differ on many things, but post 52 was incredible! Eloquent, yet to the point, touching and also firm in it's convictions. It's times like these I wish The Zone had a like button! *smile*
ArtRock1224, I was using lost to mean die. Thank The Gods of Olympos that I read on and learned it was sarcasm. I literally developed a headache and was at a loss for words for several minutes! Wow. It takes a lot! to do that. So I'm truly glad you explained yourself.
Anger isn't constructive, though. It might propell some people to do something to change their situation, but sometimes it won't.
And no one's saying it's not constructive to help those in need if you've been in their situation. But as I said, there's a difference between empathy and nonchalance. To empathize with someone doesn't mean you automatically feel sorry for them. I think you have good intentions, but you're missing a key point. In order to show someone you relate to them, you first need to show some compassion; And only then will you effectively be able to propell someone into being proactive.
Arousing someone's anger is not the most effective way to get someone to do something about his or her own situation because anger requires a lot of energy and promotes stress, even if indirectly. This energy that people use up for anger could be used more constructively.
And, to be fair, you haven't really been in the shoes of those in the north who have encountered tragic results due to the hurricane, because as you said yourself, your region of the united states is more prepared for this sort of disaster. No matter what, if you live in florida, you can expect to encounter a hurricane. Therefore, you will always have an upper hand. So people from the north will only view you as someone desensitized to their tragedy, because how could you possibly understand the full extent of their plight if your region has always taken extra provisions to ensure that its people are better prepared, better cared for in this type of natural disaster.
Your scenario of getting outside in two feet of snow and shoveling it is far from realistic. If you've ever been in a snow storm that yielded two feet of snow, you'd realize that you can shovel till your penis is frostbitten, and you still couldn't get out of your front yard. Never mind getting to your neighbor's to shovel their lawn. you need a snow plow. So you'd have to count on us northerners to supply you with a snow plow instead of telling you to get on with your life because, after all, two feet of snow is nothing.
The simple fact is, that in florida you'd freeze your nuts off with the kind of help that you're offering to the parts of the north that were affected by the hurricane. You'd want the northerners to haul their asses over to you with a plow, but guess what? No one is moved to help anyone else without first being a little empathetic. You need empathy to want to help someone. At least that's the case for most human beings.
Because if we really expected you to dust yourselfs off in two feet of snow down there without an ounce of compassion, we'd just keep sending you videos and postcards of us frollicking happily in our own pile of snow, with our warm gloves and hats and earmuffs, and taunting Floridians for not having the resources to handle the situation effectively.
See? We have snow here and we know how to deal with it. It's no big deal. You should too. Quit making a big deal out of it. What..You can't make it out of your driveway with that little sports car of yours? awww... come on. It's your own fault for not owning a fourwheeler.
Look at that poor blind kid over there, shoveling snow with a friggin dustpan like there's no tomorrow. I got news for ya, buddy. There is no tomorrow for you if you don't quit trying to shovel two feet of snow with a dustpan. Where the fuck is your snow plow. Dont' they sell those down there in the sunshine state?
How many floridians do you know who own at least a single pair of snow shoes? I know what the equivalent of a winter jacket is down south...it's not sufficient for a blizzard. You guys don't have snow gear. I mean, you might have stores that sell it, but how many people are going to stock up on warm gloves and ear muffs when they can buy a nice sun dress and some rain gear instead. Because it most certainly rains down there, but snow isn't taken into the equasion of possibilities as readily. simple as that. So while the world wouldn't end with a couple feet of snow in your area, you'd have to count on a hell of a lot of help and compassion, and I garantee you that you wouldn't find your kind of help constructive enough to get you through the aftermath.
Bernadetta, I love you. I really do.
Aww, right back atcha, pal. :)
write away, posts 52 and 59 were awesome... couldn't have said it better myself! :)
Yep, I litterally giggle-snorted at the shoveling with a dustpan.
Which is the exact reason that I went out the day after sandy and donated to cherities who were going up to help with the rebuilding effort. That would be people from florida, with the resources. I'm not just sitting back, twirlign my mustache and laughing at other people's misfortune. I never once said it wasn't a tragedy, or they didn't deserve help, or it was nothing. I said it wasn't as bad as it could have been, and its time to stop crying about how bad it was and move on.
You still haven't been able to tell me when I'm allowed to not be sympathetic anymore. I'm still looking for a time period. If you can't give one, which I already know you can't, your argument is just arbitrary.
You're upset because I'm not being sympathetic to those in need. But you're forgetting that every scenario you've come up with is a constant. every person you invision shivering in the cold before this noreaster, is matched by the homeless kid who has been shivering in the cold for years because they can't afford a house. Everyy person who can't find gas is matched by the person who can't afford it because they decided to buy food. Every person who lost a house is matched by a person who never had one.
We whine and cry when there's a natural disaster and it becomes impossible for us to ignore the misfortunes of others. But when it comes to the misfortune of the unfortunate, those whose lives are filled with the tragedies you're now saying I'm disrespecting, we shrink away and forget about them. You're saying I'm being callus because I don't sympathize with people who lost homes in a hurricane. Why don't you spend your entire life helping those who don't have what you do? Why do you even have a house over your head, there are people who could use that roof.
Its easy to say that I'm being an ass because I'm willing to say that a tragedy is just an event, and that its time to move on now. But you never stop to think that the only reason you care, the only reason you're bothering to call me an ass right now, is because it was on the news. Lets take a poll right now, before you start raging about how much of an ass I am, how many of you have ever sacrificed a noticeable sum to help the poor or the homeless? How many of you have done something more than toss a crumpled dollar into the salvation army collection plate when you go in to buy a big screen TV on christmas? How many of you would actually care about the homeless in New York if there homes hadn't been destroyed by a hurricane? Tell me that, and then you can tell me how much of an ass I'm being. Cuz I garrantee you, it isn't many of you.
So I'll close with this, at least I'm consistent, what's your excuse?
Okay. You did make a valid point about the homeless. You're right when you say that people should care for them, and not just give during tragedies like this one. But does that mean that we should ignore those in tragedies just because before they happened, they had homes, and clothing, and food? Should we turn our backs on them and only give to those who were poor before the storm? That makes no sense. And how do you know that we don't give? I myself am constantly donating clothing, and when I have it, I donate money. I've given food to drives, and would have no problem buying food for a homeless person I met on the street. No, I can't give huge sums of money, because I don't have it. But I give what I can, both now and in the past.
You really don't have any reading comprehention skills, do you? How many times do I have to repeat, "I am not saying ignore the tragedy" before you underrstand it?
I'll say it again, just so you can not understand it again. It is tragic, it was a tragedy, it was a natural disaster, it was not an unknown one, but it was still somewhat rare. It is now over. The storm has passed. Now, it is time for all of us, new yorker or floridian or whatever, to get up, get together, and rebuild. Crying about it does no good at all.
You also missed the point of my last post. You give to the poor and the homeless, but that ignores the poverty stricken, the sick, the depressed, the people who just lost houses to fires, and several other groups I don't have time to think of. You help the major ones you see, the rest don't matter to you.
What's more, you've said in another post that you would help a Greek before anyone else, so forgive me if I tell you to go fuck yourself. That sentence being meant for tifanitsa alone.
I like the idea of getting up and working together to rebuild. I agree that it's the only thing to do. But we could still be compassionate about it.
Yes, it's true that I usually help Greeks first. I'm a Hellenic nationalist. What else would you expect? But that doesn't mean there aren't exceptions. If I was on my way to donate my jacket to a Hellenic charity, and a nonGreek in my path was shivering in the cold, I'd give it to him. If I was going to donate money and someone was starving near me, I would go and buy her a sandwich, whether she was Greek or not. This helping approach is especially true for people with children, and the elderly.
OK Cody I see your points. Some of us outside of work hours ddo dedicate ourselves to volunteering with lifesaving organizations and I understand you weren't taking a shot at, or insulting, the Uniforms of people on the ground lending assistance.
I admit, I am not there in New York, I'm in Oregon. But people all over the country are helping, be it with administrative or on-the-ground efforts. And I applaud your having lent assistance where you could. You are absolutely right about the TV aspect. Nobody talked, for instance, about Deepwater Horizon (the oil spill in your neck of the woods) except to show the fate of cute animals. And you probably know this, living down there, but the economic effects on subsistance fishermen and tourist industry folks were profound.
Damn. I had a nice, lengthy post written up and I was timed out by the site. Too bad I forgot to save it. Too bad I don't feel like writing it again.
Anyways, in short, you dont get to tell someone to get over their tragedy because it's not yours, it's theirs. I'm willing to bet that the nice people who came up from Florida with their resources are not saying, hey, you lost your house? Get over it. I lost mine dozens of times. They shut up and help out. That's called humility. Some may say that they're sorry for the people's loss. That's not to say they feel sorry for them, it's just a kind phrase that shows empathy.
That's nice that you pulled out a few bills from your wallet or wrote a check or whatever, to help the people affected by the storm. But that doesn't buy you the right to take how they deal with it into your hands. Just because you through a few bucks their way doesn't automatically negate the fact that your remarks are uncalled for and do indeed make you out to be an ass.
So you help the unfortunate. You give to the homeless. You say we forget about the homeless and the poor and the unfortunate in other ways because they don't share the limelight with the most recent victims of the hurricane up here. Really? You're comparing apples to oranges. And yes, they're both fruit, but they taiste and look nothing alike.
The people affected by natural disasters face similar difficulties as those who are dealt a sad card due to other unfortunate circumstances, but they are indeed different.
Ever seen a stray dog fend for himself? They do quite well, don't they? They're a little skinny, but they know how to get into all the right trash cans; They always find a bit of food. How about a housepet that's suddenly left without a home or a human to care for him. Let's call him Yuppy Puppy. Leave him out in the cold for a few nights and he's dead. Why? Because his dear master didn't set out a bowl of food for him like he would ordinarily do. Because he's used to his warm, plush doggie bed by the fireplace.
Get where I'm going here? The people left homeless or poor or mangled, dying are struck with a flash. They have so little time to prepare and there's so many of them left scrambling for the same resources in one geographic location that it's a hell of a lot more problematic.
And before you dismiss my idea as a bunch of ignorant drivel, take into consideration that:
A. I lived across the street from a park in boston which the homeless made their own. I interacted with them on a regular basis, and yes, I gave them things, such as food and money.
And B:
I had to interview scores of homeless and poverty-stricken people for a book I was writing for a client over a three month period.
So I know a little something about how those people deal with their situations--I dont' claim to know too much, but I've had a bit more than a glimpse.
So yes. There are plenty who die in the streets, plenty who starve and the situation of poverty and all circumstances related to it are dismal. but you can't deny that people in these circumstances have a bit more room for choice, a few more resources at hand than those who are struck down by natural disasters.
And even so, You asked when it's at least semiappropriate to make asshole-like comments to the people affected by this sort of disaster, you garanteed the answer was never. Well, I'd say that if you must be a jerk about it, at least wait till people had a chance to pick themselves back up before pummeling them down with your insensativity.
As I said before, I dont' care how much money you hand over to red cross or some other charitable organization. If you lack empathy, your scrutinized for being an ass. Donald trump has millions to throw at the world, and even if he did part with at least a cent of his money, he'd still be the world's richest asshole due to the fact that he can't keep his lips zipped.
You're right that the media doesn't give nearly enough time to the plights of those unfortunate people who are constantly lacking resources, I'll give you that one. But still, I won't budge on my idea that the way you dismissed the latest hurricane as no big deal is inconsiderate. And i'll even venture to say that you initially didn't state that your comments were meant as a statement of solidarity. You simply stated that people in the north were overemphasizing the storm and that people have seen worse, more often, in your area of the nation. If that's supposed to be a statement of solidarity than excuse me, but I need to go get schooled in what modern solidarity is all about.
Write Away I can assure you any of us who do render help during a disaster are mainly focused on the task at hand and getting people what they need, a lot of logistics and operations. I've never seen one of our own say people should get over it. Some say we are a bit distant or calculated. I don't know about distant, but calculated yes, because it takes a bit of objectivity to get the most people the most help.
But deep down, people who are involved, even from the government (which people don't always like), have signed ourselves up because we really do want to see people get the best help they can when a disastrous event happens.
You are absolutely right that people suffering after an event do not have the resources to recover on their own. A few do, perhaps. But even the Preppers of pop culture. looking forward to their Zombie Apocalypse, lost a lot of their goods underwater during Katrina.
Honestly, there are some basic preparations you can do, yes. But I have always been a firm believer you best preparation is a total physical fitness, a continual learning of new skills, and training yourself to adapt to new and unfamiliar situations. When they say people survive best when they work together, that's not some fruity coombaya statement: humans' chances of survival dramatically increase when more hhumans group up. The idea of the loan survivor is more of a myth. Sure, it's good to know how, but any good survivalist knows that while they may be on their own for awhile, first priority needs to be getting oneself to a community of people.
Disasters take time to recovwer from. That's not a emotional fruit loop thing to say: it's logistically real.
Thank you, leo, for confirming my thoughts.
So you see Cody, the lesson is, keep your mouth shut when it suits the situation. We are still in the midst of alot of the tragedy--yes, the aftermath is still "the tragedy"--you don't say a word when people are still mourning.
correction. you don't, according to society, say a word, when it's different than how most people would phrase things.
of course, I wholeheartedly disagree with that.
was just trying to put the phrase in to its true terms, that aren't being stated.
and, yes, it's ashame people are only so passionate about this particular disaster cause it was on the news. that's one thing I'll never agree with.
I'm sorry to hear that. Anything I can do to help?
Is the above alright to say to one of those people? Huh? Anyone? Anyone?
lol, sometimes the best thing to do is say nothing at all.
The strange part is my GF's name is Sandra and of course she sometimes goes by Sandy. Well her twin brothers are long distance runners who were slated to run in the New York marathon earlier in the month. But due to the hurricane the event ended up being cancelled. Unfortunatel tey didn't find that out till they were on their way to New York if not already arrived.
Let me put this another scenario.
Let's say a close family member of yours died. You were very close to them. You felt as though you could talk to them about anything, about topics that you weren't comfortable talking to other people about. You knew that no matter what happened, they would not tell anyone what you said to them. No matter how busy they were, if you needed time to talk or vent to someone they were always there.
Now they are gone, and you have no one else to talk to. Would you rather hear, I'm so sorry. It really sucks that they are gone?
I'd rather hear, I know it's hard, but you will get through this. Stay strong. There are other people who will support you.
Maybe at the time at first you won't want to hear it, but it's the honest truth anyway. That person isn't coming back, so you don't have any other choice but to move on. Same with losing a house, a car, etc. Plus, what's better is that such objects can always be replaced. People can not, but those people wouldn't want you to be upset and absorbed in pity, would they?
The point here is not that anyone should be pitied, but that people's emotions in such situations should not be mitigated. In situations such as these, who are we to determine what is or is not a big deal? Everyone is affected by these things differently, and obviously, people who have more experience with destruction by nature probably will not be as affected as people who have never been through anything like this. I have no problem with being optimistic and having a let's-move-forward-and-rebuild attitude, but to say that it is no big deal and shit on people's emotions is not right.
Also, people who are the one-uppers come out looking like monumental douchebags, at least in my opinion. For instance, let's say I suffered terrible property damage from a tornado, I don't mind being comforted and given advice on moving forward. But what I would not want to hear is something like: "Oh, you think that tornado messed your shit up? Well, my family lost a house in a hurricane a year ago, and also to a fire several years back." Or, "People are overreacting to thist storm."
Yes, I get Cody's point that people die everyday, people lose property, friends, and family as a result of natural storms, earthquakes, and such, But I personally would not say that anyone is overreacting in this situation. The media is always over the top, no matter the story, but I'm sure it was a big deal to many people who experienced this storm.
True, but some people do make a big deal out of things that aren't that bad. This wasn't as bad as of a storm as was expected. The wind was more of a problem for people inland.
Thankfully it wasn't worse. Now, it is weeks after the storm and people should be moving on and recovering from the storm.
The poster who makes a point about domestic versus wild animals has a point. Some of us have been through enough in life that we're a bit more capable like the wild animals. Call it backpedaling or whatever but I see Cody's point. I stand firmly behind everything that I did say about first responder: from that one I will not ever back down. However, to many across the country, the Northeastern types and the types from the Beverly Hills section of L.A. are seen as a bit weaker or more prissy than the rest of us. To get rid of that image, they will have to adopt the characteristics of the independent "wild animal" a bit more, some of what Cody's saying. I'm still, obviously, in favor off federal rsources being used to manage and provide for the disaster's aftermath.
Go to Long Island or seaside and then say it wasn't that bad
We are not saying it wasn't worse for people in New York City and sections of the east coast. Atlantic City lost its boardwalk. We realize it was bad. But here we are, weeks after the event. Nothing will be accomplished by continuing to pity the loss. Nothing will be fixed if we waste all our energy trying to bring comfort to people with words. Words and optomism are not enough. Action will be what fixes it. I feel rather repetative at this point, so I'm done wasting time on this topic. Hopefully my point is clear enough.
And anyway recovery takes longer than a few weeks. And this was neither divine punishment for a sin as the Westborough Baptist Cult has been shouting, nor a sign that the end of all things is near. Natural disasters happen. The are beyond our control. All we can do is prepare for them as best we can and then do our best to move on afterward, even though it may take time and effort and, depending on the severity of te event, a great deal of both. People aren't going to get over the loss of home or loved ones in just a few weeks.